Nikkor 2.8/180mm Ai vs Ai-s

[Rolf]

Hi,

a question to the Nikon experts here. As fas as I undertand there are few optical differences between these 2 lenses (Ai-S seems to have ED glasses).

Are there "great" differences - visible in terms of IQ (sharpness, bokeh etc) ? Many thanks for your assistance.

[justtorchit]

Rolf -

I may be off base here, but I believe you might be referring to the *ED version and the non-*ED version. AI and AIs only deals with the mount and an added capability for automatic aperture control (with a few models). If indeed the *ED is what you are referring to, I took a look at a couple of these 180mms (an *ED and a non-*ED) that were in the used cases in my local shop one day.

Both performed quite well and were indistinguishable from one another just in shooting there in the store. I spoke with a gentleman who has been a photographer for a long time and he actually told me he had used both for years and didn't think there was hardly any difference. He also said he had heard rumors that the *ED version really was more for lens sales than improvements of the optics. I personally didn't do enough testing though, to say for sure.

[Attila]

+1 for David with ED tag is a great lens , but... I didn't find it to better than any of my old Carl Zeiss Jena lenses without any ED tags I sold it after.

[Rolf]

Thanky you David and Attila. Yes, I was reffering to the *ED and non-*ED version wheareas I tought that the Ai-S has the ED lenses and the Ai-Version not.

Thought that I made a mistake - because I bought a lens in the non-*ED version and thought I would be the version with ED glasses.

Thanks again for your answers.

[Attila]

Rolf I think with your technical skill and camera, there is no difference at all.

[justtorchit]

It is possible that the AIs mount was added to the 180mm the same time Nikon decided to release the *ED version so that an AI *ED version of this lens does not exist but I cannot verify that. Best way to find out is to shoot your lens, if you find shortcomings, get your hands on an *ED version and see if you have the same issues! Like Attila said, your skill will most likely make all the difference and it sounds like you should have no issues there! Let us know, maybe post some test shots on how this lens performs. I would like to see something more than the inside of a camera store through this optic

[BenediktW]

With this lens, the versions are correlated. The Ai does not exist with ED glass, whereas the AiS does not exist wihout.

Compare:
http://www.photosynthesis.co.nz/nikon/specs.html#180

[cooltouch]

I have never used the non-ED 180/2.8, but I did own a Canon FD 200/2.8, which did not have any low-dispersion elements. And the problems I had with it appeared in certain types of scenes. Brightly lit scenes where there were sharp vertical lines, I'd get severe magenta and green color fringing. Also, with the sun reflecting off a surface, such as the water or chrome, same thing -- pronounced green and magenta fringing.

My Nikkor 180 f2.8 ED showed none of these symptoms, and I've always felt that if the non-ED version were tasked to take the same sorts of photos as I'd taken with the Canon, it would behave similarly. Maybe not, but I'd be surprised if the non-ED version didn't exhibit some level of optical aberrations that are corrected with the ED version.

[uhoh7]

[james]

This is Björn Rørslett's take (http://www.naturfotograf.com/index2.html), for whatever it's worth:

"Be aware that the pre-ED versions (engraved Nikkor P) of the 180/2.8 are inferior in image quality in comparison with the ED 180. Not a bad lens, but the standard of the ED is a tall order to meet."

[kawasakiguy37]

Both are great. AIS should have better coatings, which will make some difference. The non 180 ED I used to have was an amazing lens but did have some flaring and a decent amount of lateral chromatic abberation. Thus while they are fine on many of the modern nikon DSLR's (which greatly reduce it), if your going to adapt this lens to other cameras I'd strongly suggest the AIS ED version.

In either case though they are known to be excellent quality lenses. I sold my 180 and bought an AF version for less!

[james]

[cooltouch]

Hey James, did you perhaps mean CZ 180, and not CV180? I don't know anything about a CV 180mm APO.

And another question just in case you meant CZ. Is the German made T* 180/2.8 different from an APO version?

[AhamB]

[justtorchit]

Aham -

I think we are discussing syntax here and I may just have written that unclearly (or perhaps I am off base?). The AIs mount was a later development of the AI mount. Yes there are other cosmetic differences (orange number, barrel design, etc) as well as the fact that in re-releasing the AIs models of earlier lenses, Nikon may have tweaked some things to improve performance. But the "AIs" designation, refers to the ability for automatic aperture control as I have read from Nikon's own literature.

Asking "Is this "AI or AIs model better of [x lens]" the "better" will have little to do with the lens having the capabilities of an AIs technology - and more to do with dates; is the newer version better than its predecessor? Nikon's more recent refinements would have been the AIs models. Is this correct or have I still misunderstood AIs?

[james]

[uhoh7]

[cooltouch]

I have always thought that the difference between AI and AIs lenses was the semi-circular notch on the back that engaged pretty much only with the FA and N2020, and that all this did was engage a program shift function. Turns out there's quite a bit more to it than that. I did a bit of googling and found this post from 2005 over at photo.net that goes into good detail:

Roland Vink , Jul 20, 2005; 09:57 p.m.

Which camera do you have? As far as I know only the FA and N2020/F501 make use of the AiS features, other cameras including F3, FE and FM series treat Ai and AiS as the same.

Technically the main difference is that there is a liniear relationship between the movement of the stop-down tab at the rear of the lens and the aperture opening. Moving the tab a known amount stops the lens to a known aperture - required for accurate exposures in shutter priority and program modes. Ai and earlier lenses don't have this. However most cameras don't offer shutter or program modes with manual lenses so the feature is somewhat redundant.

A couple of cameras (EM?, FG?) do offer these modes even with Ai lenses - they set the tab to the "correct" position, then take a stop-down reading and adjust the shutter speed if necessary.

The linear stop-down is important if you have your lens "chipped" to allow metering with AF cameras. These cameras will work in program and shutter priority with CPU lenses, but the assumption is that it has a linear stop-down aperture.

A minor difference is that AiS lenses will automatically trigger high speed program mode with the FA and F501 if the focal length is 135mm or longer.

Optically, most Ai and AiS lenses are the same - same glass, same NIC coatings. The notable difference is the 28/2.8, the AiS version has CRC and is a much better lens. Very recent AiS lenses have the newer SIC coating.

AiS lenses tend to have a shorter focus movement - this allows for quicker focusing at the expense of precision.

Here's the whole link:

http://photo.net/nikon-camera-forum/00Cwhh

[karabud]

I have ai version(pre-ED) don`t have time to use it in field but it seems sharp and ca-free, and very good microcontrast
F/2.8
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[james]

On my monitor, the chromatic aberrations along every high-contrast border are as plain as day!! As is the purple cast best seen on the white object. Very typical for this lens.

[karabud]

[james]

[karabud]

[ChrisLilley]

[ChrisLilley]